Which language to choose for transliteration of names

George G (17:06 | 17 November,2005)

It is not just Canadian-Ukrainians.....it is American-Ukrainians as well. I have lived in the NY diaspora for 50 years and I can vouch for thousands of Ukrainians here, that we consider this an affront. Hopefully, you will eventually correct this.

Jurij Lysiak (22:38 | 17 November,2005)

I agree that in Canada there are two official languages. And we translate from one to the other and there are no fights. Ukraine has only one official language Ukrainian. However, Russian articles are left in Russian on Ukrainian parts of the web site while on the Russian part of the web site there is not one word of Ukrainian. Maybe that is the reason for the anger against the Russian. It would seem that ForUm is part of the Russification process that is being carried out in a supposedly

Jurij Lysiak (22:50 | 17 November,2005)

End seems to have been cut off. It was "independent Ukraine" PS To add insult to injury when I tried to complete the above statement I was given a reply in Russian telling me that I had to wait.

Aleks (22:57 | 17 November,2005)

Here's another vote from a Ukrainian-American for the use of Ukrainian version in transliterations. In order to make Ukrainian the preferred language, you have to start acting like it is. The world will only respect Ukraine, Ukrainians and Ukrainian language when Ukrainians themselves do. Thanks to the Orange Revolution, several American Universities are adding Ukrainian language course. Keep working in the same direction.

Roman Lysiak (00:10 | 18 November,2005)

Dear English page staff and Editor In you lengthy response to Mr Bardyn, it seams as if you are missing the point which he is trying to make. Its as simple as this: Please take the necessary time and effort to acknowledge a country's official language by properly referring to names and wording which reflects the language itself, not a misinterpretation of it . The fact that others do not "complain" should not absolve your responsibility as an editor to make use of everyone's proper

Ihor Bardyn (01:09 | 18 November,2005)

Dear Editor, I will send additional comments when I return from Kyiv. Which spelling do you use for Beijing? Peking or Beijing? Ihor Bardyn

Natalia Andrijenko (07:34 | 18 November,2005)

It's very simple, guys. Stop visiting Forum! They're not worth your time.

Natalia Andrijenko (07:39 | 18 November,2005)

"So, we do not translate from Ukrainian to English via Russian, we translate from Russian to English. " They actually translate?!! Honestly, the English texts on this site are so torturously poor I was sure they were using software. They may be translating from Russian, but I wouldn't call the end result English. Pidgin English to match the "surzhyk" they speak?

Anatoly Marchenko (09:15 | 18 November,2005)

Besides, the correct transliteration of personal names is provided by the legislature. Even if you don't want to accept to spell i.e. the capital Kyiv but prefer Kiev instead - I can assume this due to crusted habits since it was spelled that way as ever and most of dictionaries have it spelled that way. But I can not tolerate the Russian transliteration of names of Ukrainian citizens etc. And it's not about independence but language itself.

Asya (10:40 | 18 November,2005)

to Natalia Andrijenko If ForUm isn't worth your time, why do you post comment, even two?

Pavel Wolkonsky (19:18 | 18 November,2005)

As a Russian-American with deep ties to what is now Ukraine, plus plenty of friends with Ukrainian roots, I applaud both respect for and use of Ukrainian language and the continued use of Russian, where most appropriate. Russian is the best choice to have an international means of communication in the fSU and eastern Europe--and the only Slavic language with any hope as a major tongue on the world stage. And, in this time when we finally have a chance to set things on a democratic course and

Nicholas Simon (04:24 | 20 November,2005)

As an Englishman at the beginning of a indefinate social connection with Ukraine, I am in some confusion as to which language to learn, starting from scratch. I am also not so young as to have a lifetime to play with. I have quickly adapted to using the Ukrainian-English form of place names. My future partner is fluent in English (and Ukrainian and Russian). My natural wish is to learn Ukrainian, almost as an act of solidarity, but provision of language learning facilities and the wider

Nicholas Simon (04:30 | 20 November,2005)

potential use in the FSU, etc. point heavily to Russian, at least until (or if) I attain a sufficient level of competency to be able to learn Ukrainian as well. If I start formally learning Russian, but because of my visits to Ukraine, etc. pick up and use Ukrainian place-names, words from signs, menus, shopping, etc. how will that play in L'viv, Donetsk or, most importantly it seems, in Canada?

Jaroslaw Martyniuk (23:50 | 21 November,2005)

Note to the Editor: This is an issue that can hardly be commented on intelligently in the limited space provided. However, allow me to clarify a few points. You state that only small percentage speak Ukrainian and Russian correctly and majority speak "surzhyk." Not so: a 2005 KIIS survey shows that 44% speak Ukrainian at home, 42% Russian and only 11% say they speak a mixture of Russian/Ukrainian. It is also not true that only Canadians complain about transliteration. Although I am a US

Maya (00:06 | 22 November,2005)

Maya (00:38 | 22 November,2005)

Steve Komarnyckyj (14:59 | 22 November,2005)

Dear Nicholas If you learn Ukrainian to a sufficient degree you will then be able without difficulty to quickly assimilate Russian- and most tolerant Russian speaking inhabitants of Ukraine can understand Ukrainian. It is also a beautiful language- Best wishes Steve

Steve Komarnyckyj (15:10 | 22 November,2005)

Dear Editor- you say it will take 14 years to sort the language situation out- it would take you five minutes to sort out you editorial policy and use Ukrainian transliterations- you are responsible and can help change the linguistic situation

Editor (13:17 | 23 November,2005)

To Jaroslaw Martyniuk: To be able to say words "Please" and "Thanks" in correct Ukrainian and with correct Ukrainian pronunciation does not mean to speak the Ukrainian language correctly. Living among the people and walking among them I can hear the language they speak, the language they consider to be Ukrainian one. And their language leaves much to be desire.

Editor (13:24 | 23 November,2005)

Thanks everybody for your comments, for your understanding support and requests. We will take them into consideration and will draw, I hope, proper conclusions. Regards. :-)

Adrian (00:29 | 24 November,2005)

Just a quick note from a Ukrainian in Australia. I must put my support for our brothers in Canada and America - it is time to use Ukrainian as the true language of translation, and excuses about how Ukraine has been Russified are poor ones. Take pride in our heritage, and for goodness sake stop making excuses and use what is rightfully ours - the Ukrainian language is beautiful, and I find when Ukrainian names translated from Russian trully offensive to the ear!

Anthony (13:07 | 24 November,2005)

Regardless of the discussion about the language, I think that Gollywood is great and that is how it should now be known, all those in favor raise your right hand, yes sir that includes you at the back.

Alex (13:32 | 24 November,2005)

So, if all of you care so much about the language and the country and the heritage, why do you live in other countries? Maybe, you should come back to Ukraine and teach people who live there “proper” transliteration or translation.

Alex (13:41 | 24 November,2005)

To dear Mr Bardyn: It will not kill you to be nice when posting a comment. I don’t think that anybody asked you to teach history lessons. Arrogance is not something to be proud of. (Don’t you want to give me lesson in English, since I did what I was not supposed to do?) Sincerely, Alex from Chicago, originally from Donetsk, who speaks only Russian and English.

Asya (14:05 | 24 November,2005)

To Alex: Respect!!! Regards from Donetsk. All those, who care about the Ukrainian language, are welcome to come back Ukraine and to feel it in full measure. There is also another alternative: please read the Ukrainian page of the website.

Jurij (17:02 | 24 November,2005)

Dear Asya I would be glad to read the Ukrainian page but the problem is that sections are in Russian. Having never studied Russian, I go to the English part instead. Would be nice if we had the Ukrainian page in Ukrainian only and the Russian one in Russian.

ukr (17:08 | 24 November,2005)

http://ua.for-ua.com/ 2Jurij Have you ever seen the flag of Independent Ukraine??? Would you be so kind to pay attention on the icon at the top of the page!

Jurij (00:19 | 25 November,2005)

Dear Ukr. Not sure which flag you mean. If it is the blue and yellow one then when you press it you get some sections in Ukrainian and others in Russian. Is that the way it is supposed to be???????

Bukva "Ge" (01:45 | 25 November,2005)

Xello! Xave you xeard? I xave been freed from Stalin's Literary Prison No. 42 - xowever, I xave much to learn about my native Ukrainian tounhe, which I xave not been able to use without fear of repression for some time. I xope my brothers and sisters around the world will xelp me. It seems not everyone, namely certain people at ForUm, is takinh my problem seriously. Ahain, I ask all to maintain the struhhle for a renewed and vibrant proper Ukrainian lanhuage. Sincerely, the letter "Ge"!

Stepan Pasicznyk Ukrainian/Irish from England (01:56 | 25 November,2005)

Dear Editor. I now add my voice . Ukrainian/Irish decent from England. Ask yourself this. What would the national bard of our country Taras Shevchenko think? Although also fleunt in Russian, he would have said strive to keep Ukrainian Ukrainian. Surzhik is a reality we understand and tolerate, but it is also an abomination, a product of Ukraine's slavery. Strive to speak and write Ukrainian in Ukrainian. It is not too much to ask to honour our ancestry. Stepan www.theukes.com

Margarita (02:04 | 25 November,2005)

I live in Brazil teaching English for 30yrs. Unless you make an effort to learn your own language you will not be able to develop your own literature, nor build up national self esteem. Correct transliteration from Ukrainian to Eng. or vice versa will protect the Ukrainian language from phonetic pollution. My students manage to learn English WELL in less than 4 yrs., they don´t need 14! It is just a matter of desire to do so. I´ve had a hard time in Ukraine to figure out what

Roxolana (03:44 | 25 November,2005)

Regarding the transliteration of Ukrainian names, the diaspora doesn't follow the rules either, eg Jurij, Wolodymyr. Unfortunately, Ukrainian passport offices who process people's passport often make spelling errors as well as transliteration errors. I have seen passports with Tyissa, instead of Tayissa, Serhiy, Sergiy and Sergei, Oxana, Oksana, Oleh, Oleg, Oleksandr, Olexandr, Alexander, Alexandr, Mariya, Maria, Yevgen, Yevgeniy, Yevhen not to mention Wladimir Klishchko having the best one.

Pawlina (06:45 | 25 November,2005)

Of course the diaspora doesn't always transliterate correctly. That's the problem! But the diaspora has ignorance as an excuse. What excuse have native-born Ukrainians? They should be setting the definitive standard for the world to follow! If Ukrainians can't be counted on as experts of their own language, who can? Are today's Ukrainians as content with "surzhyk" as yesterday's immigrants to Canada were with "half na piv"? It would be inspiring to see Ukrainians strive for excellence

Marie (08:41 | 25 November,2005)

I think that it's important to remember it's only been 14 years since independence. The language hasn't truly had that much time to grow and/or recover. In the East of Ukraine, it's only been a few years, really, since Ukrainian has begun to get attention. Eventually, it'll sort itself out. Conversations like these show how much of a transition is going on, and I think how healthy the country is becoming in so many ways.

anonymous (09:37 | 25 November,2005)

Hey, ForUm, stop all the whining. Be professional and learn proper Ukrainian-to-English transliteration. No one wants to hear all this talk about Russian influence. You are free to either continue ignorant editorial policies or you can create an informed and above all linguistically ACCURATE transliteration system. Why not check out this site? http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~tarn/courses/translit-table.html Library of Congress is the standard.

Steve Cimbaly (11:44 | 25 November,2005)

The Chinese no longer refer to their wonderful city as Peking. In Australia we now enjoy the culinary delight called Beijing Duck. What would be wrong if we now had Chicken Kyiv?

Yarko (06:12 | 26 November,2005)

On 19 April 1996, an official Ukrainian-English transliteration system was adopted by the Ukrainian Legal Terminology Commission (Decision N 9). You can find it here www.rada.kiev.ua/translit.htm. If this is the law then not only forUm but all Ukrainian publications should be using it.

POMAH (06:49 | 26 November,2005)

Bravo Steve! They do not care about Shevchenko and chicken & ducks and especially not about what the Diaspora has to say. (Though it is not true if we are speaking about subscriptions or other money issues)

POMAH (07:00 | 26 November,2005)

This is the time to remind those who were taught by previous regime that not everybody in Diaspora is an uneducated peasant and secondly, remind yourself Lenin’s phrase: – “ until I learn something I did not know how little I knew” Sorry if it is not “big vozhd’s” line, those days in our universities… you know… we were being brain washed. It is hard to realize, that some of the acquired (mostly po blatu) knowledge is not kosher...

POMAH (07:05 | 26 November,2005)

Especially hard to give up is, ME- the “greatest one, the “chosen”. (Sorry! You are the best. But times have changed. At least for the time being…) Slava Ukrayini.. Slava Heroyam!!!

yaroslaw (07:21 | 26 November,2005)

Ihor Bardyn ,bless his heart has pinpointed an immense deficit in your editorial policy Your misunderstanding of G instead of H in Ihors example requires that I repeat the following :The Russian language was imposed upon the Ukrainian populace which resulted in the use of Surgic which is a bastardization of Ukrainian and Russian languages which is an affront to both.As you have stated Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine. Then shape up be professional use Ukrainian instead of a blend.

Svitlanka (19:54 | 26 November,2005)

"I respect the Ukrainian language and I acknowledge that Ukraine, as an independant state, should has its own independent language. But to realise this we need much more time, than 14 years." That is not acceptable or a valid excuse. If you do not start transliterating with the Ukrainian and continue with the Russian, then when will the world begin to use the Ukrainian? The world will not, due to the trend that you are promoting, Mr. Editor. Congrats on making awful, Pro-Russian arguments.

Svitlanka (19:59 | 26 November,2005)

It makes me think that you do not understand Ukrainian well enough to use it for transliterations into English. You must simply not know how, otherwise you would. 14 years is a lengthy amount of time... Oh and by the way, the Ukrainian language is much older than 14 years old. It's not as if it was completely erased during Soviet times. Have some respect for those you dishonour by altering their names into a FOREIGN language, and then into English. How dare you lable Ukr-Cdns as

Svitlanka (20:05 | 26 November,2005)

(cont) whiners!!!! SINCE WHEN IS IT WRONG TO STAND UP FOR OUR LANGUAGE?!?!!?!?? IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK?!?!?!!??! Surely the Russians won't mind if you rightfully use Ukrainian, which is most appropriate. They're not the ones being persecuted. Then again, maybe they WOULD care, but WHO CARES?!?? All things Russian in Ukraine should be Ukrainian, anyways. Ukraine cannot help that it was forced to become Russified.

Svitlanka (20:10 | 26 November,2005)

You claim to respect the Ukrainian language. I wait to see proof. (Words of advice: Don't get Svitlana riled up about Ukrainian-Russian issues. This is what happens when you do that.) :)

Svitlanka (20:15 | 26 November,2005)

Ever noticed how Russian ISN'T an official language of Ukraine? So by saying it's parallel to Canada's French and English is an INVALID POINT on your part. Did you know that English and French are BOTH OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF CANADA? Shame on you.

Ihor Nedoshytko (20:33 | 26 November,2005)

I for years have endured people ,mostly anglophones misreading my first name as Igor which it is not; it is Ihor. As well, when interacting with Russians or Russian speaking individuals, they would refuse to pronounce my name "Ihor" and continued the incorrect pronounciation even when reminded about it. It's time that this type of idiocy ended, especially in official transliterations prepared by intelligent and educated scholars. Let' s stop kissing Russky butt. !!! Ihor Nedoshytko

Petro (03:37 | 27 November,2005)

Your "English page staff and editor" must go, and replaced by someone who understands that Ukrain's language and culture, after centuries of opression and destruction, now needs a deliberate intensive care to rescue it from total Russification. Accepting achievements of Russification to date, as the editor does, means continuing it. For Ukrainians to allow anybody to promote such a policy for Ukraine is suicidal!

Marie (05:16 | 27 November,2005)

Maybe because I'm not Ukrainian, I see this from a bit farther away. I agree with all of the comments about the need to use accepted transliterations, and don't understand why Serhiy can't be Serhiy. But, I don't think we should dismiss the service ForUm provides. English real-time news is rare from Ukraine. Even UP doesn't translate most articles into English. So, let's not advocate just throwing out the editor. Let's recognize the good as well as what needs improvement. :)

Marie (05:22 | 27 November,2005)

In addition, I think we should recognize that there doesn't seem to be any pro-Russia editorial slant in the actual news coverage (like, for example, URA, which seems sometimes like it's based in Moscow). Again, I don't want to condemn everything with one swoop, because I see the great number of positives that this site provides. I hope they'll pay more attention to the transliteration issue, and do more news originally in Ukrainian, but let's not discourage they're efforts!

Bukva "Ge" (07:01 | 27 November,2005)

To Marie - THANK YOU for your kind words. We as Ukrainians are very fortunate to xave - excuse me, have - a rich lanhuage - oops, language - with which we can use our Hod-hiven - I mean God-given - natural ability to verbally express the sounds: (this will be difficult as I am out of practice, but here goes...) "Heh", "Geh" and "Khe"! So, let us all get with it - let us play "hokej" on the "ganok" beside the "khata"! I HAVE BEEN LIBERATED! USE ME, UKRAINIANS! Sincerely, the letter

Bukva "Ge" (07:08 | 27 November,2005)

Do not fear, fans of "Ge" - I was not abducted again! I ran out of characters during my last post! Sincerely, the letter "Ge"! (P.S.: Can someone buy Vitalij Klychko some "Learn Ukrainian In 10 Easy Lessons" audio cassettes?!)

Borys (Australia) (12:56 | 27 November,2005)

Dear Ed you are WRONG, WRONG and WRONG about saying those things about only Canadian Ukrainians complain. Here in Australia we too complain about the russification of Ukrainian words. For your information the Germans of WWII laughed at the russians because they could only pronounce Hitler as Gitler. Dear Ed, wake up to yourself because if you have not learned in 14 years, then maybe its time for you lie down and exit this world, as only vegetables don't learn!! Slawa Ukraini!, Slawa Heroyam!

Anthony (13:44 | 27 November,2005)

All this about the Ukrainian language what about how the English language is used, some examples The police station was attacked by a large group of angry mops I fell in love with her the first time I sawed her I am here to make an announcement, this Thursday ticket counters and planes with fly from Ronald Reagan Airport (flying counters) These are excerpts from American newspapers who should know their own language, so don’t be too hard on the editor

Peter Crosby (17:17 | 27 November,2005)

Nicholas, I share your predicament. Having scoured bookshops in both the UK and Chenihiv for "teach yourself Ukranian" textbooks I have resorted to learning Russian; which I hear spoken far more, and far more fluently than Ukranian. The debate about russifcation of Ukranian is for the Ukranians. The initial de-russification - one of the first acts of the independant government - said more about who Ukranians are not than who they are, now they argue instead about east-west dialects!

Peter Crosby (17:42 | 27 November,2005)

Editor (11:53 | 28 November,2005)

All participants of the conference are invited to Forum section to continue the discussion of the topic. There is my new post and some special addresses to the readers and commentators. Regards.

VL (17:03 | 28 November,2005)

The main point of all this discussion is: in Ukrainian you have: H, G, and Kh in Russian there is only: G and Kh, the H in this language is either transliterated as G or Kh. Therefore the examples given are: Harvard is transliterated as Garvard or Kharvard from the Russian, etc. - what is there not to understand?

Andrij (00:42 | 29 November,2005)

Is this page still taking comments or has it been shut down due to the weight of truth?

George Chmilewsky (18:06 | 29 November,2005)

The rational used for your continued lack of respect to the official language of the country you are reporting from is causing annoyance. By doing so, are earning scorn in the Ukrainian Comunities on a World wide level. Also revealing your "Functinary Status". There is no stopping the Changes that we have chosen.

Zenon (Canada) (18:26 | 29 November,2005)

Stop using the Russian language in Ukraine. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine. Stop comparing Canada with two official languages to that of Ukraine and the Russian language - you can't be serious you don't know the difference, forced Russification should have come to an end in 1991. In Canada, the province of Quebec mandates that the French language is used in government and business. All signs are in French. If you want to get a job in Quebec must read and write in French

Fake Editor aka Svitlanka (21:27 | 29 November,2005)

By the way, I apologize to all Ukrainians. They are the best. I am only a weiner in sheep's clothing. For that, I am truly sorry.

Steve Komarnyckyj (16:17 | 30 November,2005)

Dear Peter Ukrainian is spoken in the countryside the use of Russian is more prevalent in the cities- but even there it will decrease. Again as I said sensitive Russian speakers in Ukraine are quite capable of understanding Ukrainian. There really is no need to learn Russian in Ukraine, no dilemma and it is easily possible to obtain Ukrainian language resources. It's a beautiful language and you're losss if you don't learn it

Maxim Popov (22:16 | 30 November,2005)

Andrij, what are talking about?! Have you read Editor post about forum section?

Leonid (06:45 | 01 December,2005)

About Ukraine's history and Language I could say by two mighty sayings: You're made your bed; now lie in it. When God closes a door, He opens a window. If at first you donn't succed, try, try again. Truth is stronger than fiction. Uktaine is between the rock and a hard place - Russia and Europe. It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. Ukraine, accept your fate! Leonid

Editor (13:35 | 01 December,2005)

Dear Svitlanka, please visit Forum section. I have a personal address to you. http://en.for-ua.com/forum/read.php?1,70 Regards, Real Editor.

Maxim Popov(site admin) (13:41 | 01 December,2005)

Svitlanka, can you explaine why the last Editor's post was made from the same ip address as yours? Are you sure that you are the en.for-ua.com Editor? So, shame on you!

lol (15:24 | 01 December,2005)

Svitlanko, stop playing this dirty game. I do not know where you were born but the way you act is similar to Ukrainian market-woman's behavior.

Andrij (18:31 | 01 December,2005)

Maxim - my question was rhetorical and meant to be "tongue-in-cheek". It was odd to see that not one post had occured between 17:03 on Nov. 28 and 18:06 Nov. 29 (Not including mine at 00:42). If anything, my comment was meant to praise this page for allowing such a vibrant discussion to continue notwithstanding the preponderance of opinions supporting the original letter from Ihor Bardyn. Please continue giving the issue of the Ukrainian language the forum it deserves.

Andrij (18:43 | 01 December,2005)

ForUm staff involved in communications on this page should concentrate on the issue at hand, not on emotional distractions. If you have hard evidence that someone is abusing this forum, make a statement to that effect and carry on. Furthermore, the Editor's decision to deflect attention away from this page to another area is unfortunate with respect to continuity. The tone of the Editor's post in the other section is potentially chasing away serious candidates from fruitful discussion.

Andrij (18:50 | 01 December,2005)

Finally (for now) - ForUm staff - please concentrate on rational debate and keep emotions in check or you risk losing credibility. Contributors that post obvious non-sequiturs and emotional excesses should be ignored. Let us get back to the issue of proper transliteration and elevation of the Ukrainian language to its deserved status. Please keep control of this forum and please keep it alive!

Maxim Popov(site admin) (10:31 | 02 December,2005)

Andrij, as you can see, the Editor use proper transliteration

oleh (00:46 | 04 December,2005)

Dear Roxana.Not the English is the only language.There are many and many. "..not to mention Wladimir Klishchko having the best one.His name spelled correctly but just in German.Wladimir Klitschko. Pay attention.

M Horpinitch (22:01 | 04 December,2005)

Refering to the use of G instead of H in translating Ukrainian into English- I am a teacher of English and would it not be incredibly unprofessional of me to allow my students to say “sank you” or “xot dog”? In reference to the transliteration of names, the world will accept what you present to them. You should look at it from that perspective, because nobody will respect you until you respect yourselves, your own Ukrainian language and culture.

Lidiya Syvko (00:52 | 05 December,2005)

You know, I am about to receive a degree in Eng-Ukr-Eng translation. There is a problem with transliteration. It is not only connected with Ukrainian-English transliteration but vise versa too. Thre are traditional transliterations but what do you do with last names and other proper names which have never been translated before? Language has to be nice, clean and correct. I am for a stable transliteration rules and believe me it is very confusing not to have them...

Hanna - Donetsk (13:47 | 05 December,2005)

I live in Donetsk and I know how important Russian language is here. However, we have to acknowledge that this is the region with the least attachment to Ukraine as a country and Ukrainian language. I also would like to remind some of you of artificial Femine Russian Speaking Soviet government has done in our country directed specifically towards Ukrainian population to stop development of the nation. The fact that a lot of Ukrainians speak Russian now does suppose their own choice they're

Hanna - Donetsk (13:52 | 05 December,2005)

continuation: ...doing now. This is the result of direct purposeful policy of Russian empire and later - of the Soviet Government. Ukrainians started to afraid and be ashamed of using their own language. People are misled. Language is very important for nation. We have such a wonderful opportunity to have and use OUR OWN beautiful and developed language, which was finally declared as the only official language.

Hanna - Donetsk (13:58 | 05 December,2005)

It's such a dismal that some of us don't want to recognize it, don't want to respect all those people who died protecting our language. I know how hard is to accept this. But we must do this. Mr. Bardyn you have my entire support of everything you wrote and you're doing a great job supporting Ukrainian culture.

Hanna - Donetsk (14:05 | 05 December,2005)

When I received my foreign passport because of this lack of due attention to the transliteration of my name, I became Ganna. But I’m not Ganna!.. Nobody ever called me like this. And my last name was also transliterated in a wrong way. So, now I have the name which doesn’t belong to me and I have again and again make comments about it when I meet new people. Ukrainians who use surjik spell G as H, but believe me every time I’m outside the country I hear new version of my own name.

Alexander Sydorenko (22:40 | 05 December,2005)

Quit being a Russian colony and consider yourself a nation. Quit using lame excuses to defend your colonized mindset--liberation begins in the head. Otherwise "Little Russia" will exist indefinitely.

Andrij (17:59 | 06 December,2005)

Maxim - you wrote "the Editor use proper transliteration". Did you mean to say "the Editor uses proper transliteration"? Are you aware of the fact that this is the essence of the debate here? Furthermore, if you would like to extend the discussion to include English grammar and orthography, your editorial staff could use some assistance in this area as well. Please accept the fact that much of the criticism here is meant to be constructive and helpful to you!

Olena (19:01 | 08 December,2005)

Dear editor, Making your conclusion that Russian page has higher rating basing on its being visited you are not honest. Voluntary or not you distort the truth: your main page is a Russian one by default when first visited. Only from this Russian page a reader can choose what language page will start by default on his/her computer. Do you take this fact into account in your ratings?

Olena Kholonyuk (16:54 | 09 December,2005)

Secondly, I cannot agree that “the majority of Ukrainian citizens speak so-called ‘surzhyk’”. I might have believed your statement if I had not visited Central and Eastern Ukraine myself. Common people speak very nice Ukrainian there. It is close to the Ukrainian literary language, though with some local accent. You may easily find the proofs in the movie about Holodomor, which was broadcasted recently by Ukrainian TV channels. Common people in villages and small towns in Donetsk, Luhansk, Sumy

Olena Kholonyuk (17:02 | 09 December,2005)

(cont) Districts give interviews in pure Ukrainian and not ‘surzhyk’, and, what is notable, without any Russian accent – obviously it is their everyday language. Of course they use some words characteristic of their region. But this phenomenon is called, as far as I know, a dialect and not “surzhyk”.

Olena Kholonyuk (17:07 | 09 December,2005)

I consider you to be dishonest again when you try to persuade the whole world and Ukrainians themselves that Holokhvastov (sic! not Golokhvastov) and Pronya Prokopovna (the unforgettable characters of Starytskyi’s play) represent real Ukraine.

Olena Kholonyuk (17:13 | 09 December,2005)

Thirdly, I would be very much obliged and pleased if in other languages my name sounded the same way (to the extend it is possible) as it does in my native one. It is fairly ironic and grotesque to transliterate Ukrainian proper and geographic names into other languages on the basis of their corresponding Russian versions. Does disrespect for ourselves demonstrate “respect for all readers”? When Ceylon was replaced by Sri Lanka and Alma-Ata by Alma-Aty did the world community oppose the changes?

Olena Kholonyuk (17:18 | 09 December,2005)

Throughout its occupational history L’viv has had many foreign names - Lw?w which meant that the city was under the Polish rule, Lemberg which indicated the enslavement by a German speaking government… Now, what does Lvov instead of L’viv mean today? I think it is more than evident that to introduce the transliteration based on Ukrainian authentic names is nothing but a sign to the world, that “Ukraine is not Russia”.

Olena Kholonyuk (17:27 | 09 December,2005)

A few words regarding cosmopolitanism. I understand the Earth to be our common home, granted to us by God for usage and care. But it seems to me that each of us is particularly responsible for the patch of land where he/she was born and lives. Such a patch for us is Ukraine. We differ from others by our language, culture. I do not think that God would want it all to disappear.“The very difference creates the humanity’s treasure. Would the rainbow be so beautiful if any of the colours faded away?

Maksym Klyuchar (13:22 | 11 December,2005)

As ahort as that: Being an interpreter I consider it to be a good rule (and a right one) to transcribe from the language, where the word comes from! Ukrainian names are NOT an exception. We just need to keep this fact in mind - Ukraine is NOT Russia and Ukrainian is NOT a dialect - therefore, I totally support the people who argue for the purity of transcription =)

Myron Zee (18:07 | 13 December,2005)

The problem of the language is much deeper , after working in the education system in Ukraine for three years, I noticed that Ukrainian was in trouble because the government allowed Russian to prevail in many areas: Computer Language, Childrens Books, Sport Centres , Schools (that were Ukrainian only in name), If the govenment really wanted Ukrainian to be the Official language, 14 years would of been enough time to assimilate the children of the Russian speaking population., Myron

Mirko (20:50 | 13 December,2005)

Crisis in Ukraine! In the playoffs for the World Cup, Ukraine is in group H. Now will that be group Kha, or Ge or He ? hee hee, there is a God after all!

Adam (05:00 | 14 December,2005)

Is the name: Edinko, either a forename or surname in the Ukraine?this if for genealogical research. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was so huge in history, the name already mention might be part of another culture. Plus the surname: Demcko? Thanks for any help.

Tepeca (09:24 | 15 December,2005)

Further on official languages: ForUm's Editor is under the impression that the English and French speakers have no issues of contention in Canada. Perhaps the good Editor has somehow managed to entirely dismiss Quebec and its ongoing linguistic (and cultural) dissention? Or perhaps it's indicative of a lazy and/or ignorant approach to research? Let us not overlook the fact that, though we accept another language as our official, Ukrainian can thrive as a language and a lifestyle no

Tepeca (09:27 | 15 December,2005)

Proud Ukrainian in America (19:06 | 03 January,2006)

My name is IHOR not iGor and I make sure Everyone that i know knows this because i an UKRAINAIN not russian.

Stefanya (03:02 | 05 January,2006)

A tempest in a teapot. Speak both languages. As a full-blooded Ukrainian, I am not offended by Russian being spoken in Ukraine. In spite of the past history, I think Russians and Ukrainians should get along. all countries have ugliness in their past histories even in America. At least when Ukraine was part of Russia it's citizens were not being whored to death all over the world and their fine skating and dance coaches are stolen by the entire world. Sex slavery, coke &Mcdonalds are no

Stefanya (03:08 | 05 January,2006)

substitute for the dignity of being a human being. Despite all the hatred for Russia, their isn't a skater or dancer anywhere in the world who doesn't run to Russian coaches in order to try to be the best. Just because they are able to steal Russian Coaches when Russians can't afford them doesn't make those people Russian and it doesn't make them any less proud to win, Just ask Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto. Speaking Russian doesn't make Ukrainians any less Ukrainian especially if they

Stefanya (03:14 | 05 January,2006)

substitue for the former dignity of the people in Ukraine. Living in America, my name first and last has always been mispronounced. So what? I don't feel any less Ukrainian. But I don't hate Russians, certainly not enough to get rid of the Russian Language. Today, dancers and skaters all over the world must have their Russian coaches to be the best. Do they feel less American or Canadian etc. if they win thanks to those coaches. I think not. Ask Belbin and Agosto if they win if their

Stefanya (21:34 | 09 January,2006)

Sex slavery, coke & McDonald's are no substitute for human dignity. So names aren't being spelled or pronounced exactly the same. Living in America our names were mispelled and mis pronounced. It didn't make me feel any less Ukrainian. So there is no H in the Russian Language. Igor or Ihor, so what? There are other more important things to fight over. Cooperation would probably help both economies. Most people in Europe speak more than one language. In Ukraine, speak Russian as well.

Stefanya (21:40 | 09 January,2006)

I find Russian equally as beautiful as Ukrainian, and due to centures of being part of the same country, they should get along much better in this day and age of democracy instead of pushing hatred. I am a full-blooded Ukrainian living in America and I don't hate Russians. Furthermore if you do hate Russians, you can't expect to pay one fourth for the price of gas that other FOREIGN COUNTRIES DO. Russia and Ukraine have regional problems that American's and Canadians can't fix.

Halicia (13:47 | 16 January,2006)

I'm from Lviv and I will kill anyone write galychyna but not _Halychyna_!

DIMA (11:35 | 11 February,2006)

More than 40 years I was "Dima" or "Dmitriy" for all my friends. It's absolutely impossible or unacceptable for me to become "Dmytro" just in one day because of Ukrainian spelling of the name!!! All the same with my friends who have names Vladimir, Sergey, Igor, Mikhail and etc. They will never (no way!!!) become Volodimir, Serhiy, Ihor, or Mikhailo!!!

Yaroslaw (07:46 | 16 February,2006)

Stefanya,Stefanya why are you still out in left field? Russians cannot not buy the love of the Ukrainian people by offering them cheaper gas ,or even free gas.Possibly they should offer respect and less arrogance.This could work over time.

s (02:55 | 01 April,2006)

Dima, are you Ukrainian? If you are, then where is your sense of self-worth? What does this say about you, a person from a nation of close to 50 million people, preferring to speak Russian rather than your own ridna mova? Your ancestors were forced to speak Russian, were browbeaten into thinking that Russian was more intelligent (what a lie) or maybe they were sent to Siberia for being nationalists? Or did they die in the holodomor because they were Ukrainians? Wake up!

Dima(new) (23:03 | 08 April,2006)

Ridna mova can go stuff itself into Yushenkos butt before I speak it. Russian is my native language, I hate the name in my Passport never use it, and never will use it. As far as I care its a completely different name.

Lu (04:35 | 02 May,2006)

To Halicia: You use the word "KILL" so easily if someone makes the mistake in "Halychyna"... What if a foreigner makes a mistake in your name? ARE YOU ABLE TO KILL? COMPLETELY AGREE WITH STEFANYA.

George Bohdan (19:36 | 09 May,2006)

The reason for the translyteration errors is that one day there will be only latin alphabet. One Computer Keyboard and Software. That will be in english which should be Ukraines second official language. Ukrainian can be transliterated beutifuly into Latin Alphabet. Much easier than Polish. No need to use strange accents. Better for schools since Ukrainian is starting up from scratch in some regions. The Russians know this and are trying to make us use their spellings. This must be avoided.

Only registered users can add comments. For registered users to enter e-mail and password.
Be aware, Editorial staff may not share opinions and ideas of readers and commentators.
REGISTER, forgot your password?, change profile